Kim Klaver, Big Al, and John Milton Fogg
In the past few days a lot of you have commented on Kim Klaver’s recent promotion of her new MLM company as well as her negative articles on other MLM companies.
But did Kim Klaver do anything wrong?
We’re all in network marketing right? Half of what we do is build relationships with people because what we’re really selling is our expertise. When someone joins our team they usually aren’t joining the company. They are joining us. They think we can show them how to make a successful business so that’s why they join us.
So we’re all in the relationship building business.
Did you know that Big Al has his own network marketing company? John Milton Fogg is also involved in an MLM company.
No one is complaining about Big Al or John Fogg though.
I think the difference is how it is presented. I’ve never heard Big Al slam another company, yet that’s what Kim Klaver has begun doing. She’s writing negative articles about other MLM companies. With John Fogg I bet it’d be hard to even find out what company he is involved in.
Perhaps if Kim Klaver had just promoted her company quietly there wouldn’t be so much fuss over her. After all if all she did was take the nice lady approach to get “disenfranchised” or “disatisfied” networkers, I don’t think we’d be so mad at her. It is the fact that she’s attacking other companies which seems as if she’s doing it in order to promote herself and her company. If she just stuck to building relationships I don’t think she’d have lost so much respect from other people in the industry.
What’s your 2 cents? Do you agree? Did you even know that Big Al has his own company?
- Ben Fitts
PS. Full Disclosure I am of course a network marketing distributor just like you guys… I’m with Send Out Cards
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I’ve been a reader of Kim’s blog for quite some time. I enjoy many aspects of approach to network marketing. My take is that she a strong proponent of the industry. I’ve never taken any of her posts as an attack on any company. Rather, she posts the bad press many companies have experienced and **offers suggestions how these things can be avoided**. Sure, for the companies that are getting the bad press, it might sting, but I think she’s doing everyone a favor.
Hi Ben,
Any good business strives to build relationships with their customers, prospects and business partners. A big part of building that relationship is “trust”. People buy into you, before they buy a vitamin, a card, a vacation or a book. But it takes effort to “win” their trust and then to “keep” that trust.
The fact of the matter is that Kim Klaver violated that trust with everyone she’s ever done business with. There are right ways to go about building a business and wrong ways to do it. Building a list on the pretense of “generic MLM trainer” and then raiding that list for your personal benefit in your own MLM is a conflict of interest with all of those network marketers who put their “life and blood” (their down lines) in her care.
She isn’t the first well-known MLM trainer to start with another MLM company, however I think this has to be the most blatant abuse of any well-known trainer that I have ever heard. I remember when Randy Gage decided to get back into MLM. I found out through a certain well-known MLM forum, not through the e-mail newsletter that I received from him on a weekly basis. He didn’t abuse his position by taking advantage of his entire network of MLMers.
Another example is Mike Dillard. He put together a great “generic” product to help with lead generation and built a huge list, but you will not find him marketing anything other then the generic products to that list. If you want to find out what company Mike Dillard was with, you had to do some digging. You would never see it plastered on his affiliate program site, nor did he mention it in any of his e-mails to his list of subscribers.
What’s interesting to me is that she is attacking other companies for their tactics and accusing them of adding to the stigma of the way MLM has always done business and continues to perpetuate the misconceptions about the MLM industry. The irony is that Kim’s approach to marketing her MLM business is not off to a great start to improving the integrity surrounding this industry.
That’s my 2-cents.
Nelson Rivera
http://www.nelsonrivera.net
P.S. Ben, how come the comment author’s name doesn’t appear in your blog? Would be nice to put a name with the comments.
This is Kim Klaver, and thanks to the previous poster for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Not all of you will, I understand that.
I have actively gotten back in the field in the last month or two. Therefore my previous posts (over the past 3 years) commenting on the bad media or regulatory coverage our industry companies have gotten, now look like devious ways to win people over to my new little gig. How awful!
Of course it looks like that now, positively evil. I’d perhaps feel the same way you do, Ben. For that I apologize - and to anyone else who feels I have slipped into the dark side.
It is not so. But I know some of you may not believe it.
I have never dumped on a company. I have reported on negative media or regulatory reports on specific companies. Reports in the Wall St Journal, etc. My goal then and now is 1)to promote the industry, and 2) to discourage anyone in it from promising things we cannot deliver, so as to ESCAPE the media and government radar. We have few, if any friends there. Self examination is a good thing, better to correct ourselves than to have the feds do it for us.
Thanks, Ben, for the opportunity to comment here.
Oh, as to the little start up, it’s one of thousands of companies. I have always believed there is more than enough to go around for all of us who are genuine and follow our hearts.
Thanks for listening and do well with whatever venture adds meaning to your life.
Kim Klaver.
I don’t consider Kim bashing other companies. I feel in that respect, that she is simply sharing what is in the media and allowing her readers and opportunity to learn from the situation.
However, I still disagree with the way she is marketing her little start up. Nelson is right, many MLM trainers have gotten back into MLM (isn’t it great, it’s not just a matter of those can, do and those can’t…. well you get the idea). I’m all for that. But, no, I didn’t know Big Al had his own company, nor did I know John Milton Fogg belonged to it. And THAT is the point. I’m an original subscriber to John’s TheGreatestNetworker website and just renewed. And I still never knew.
People come to Kim because they are already jaded about what is happening. Maybe they were only in the business for a month or two or maybe for several years. The opportunity to join a business created with the very basic principals they are now preaching when they are already jaded is just too much and not at all fair to those leading them to what was a wonderful resource.
The big question, is Kim afraid her start up won’t succeed without the numbers? Would it have if she hadn’t blasted it to her thousands and thousands of subscribers? I guess we will never know.
Nicole Bandes
http://www.ilovesendoutcards.com
Ben wrote > “Did you know that Big Al has his own network marketing company? John Milton Fogg is also involved in Big Al’s “Vitamark” company.”
John writes > Did you know John Milton Fogg WAS involved in “Vitamark” (three-ish years ago… quit after less-than three months for my own “important to me” reasons… NOT with Vitamark now… )
And yes, I am WITH a network marketing company… and no I’m not telling here or (mostly) anywhere else, because I encountered the same inaccurate “ccapurate” K2’s getting now and it’s just not true and I want nothing to do with it–”it” being the faux flack of other people’s opinions and mental judging of me and my “real” intentions.
It’s interesting that “trainers” who LOVE this business (as Kim does and I do), catch such criticism when they decide to enter or re-enter it as business-builders. Is Kim’stuff (or mine’s or Tom’s or Randy’s or…) any different now that you know she’s (we’re) a company owner? Not for me.
Is K2 sailing way-too close to the wind by offering people the chance to become involved with her directly on her weblog? I think so… and THAT is JUST my opinion. I see no difference with you, Ben, posting your SendOutCards link here on this weblog.
But then as said… that’s just my opinion. I could ne wrong
Thanks.
I appreciate you.
Hey John,
Thanks for visiting our little blog. I’ll fix the comments about you above as I don’t want to mislead anyone!
Thank you for your professionalism. I appreciate that.
The difference is really what you’ve already pointed out: You don’t make it obvious who you belong to. Kim is making it obvious at least on her blog.
One of the cool outcomes of this is that Kim has already made some changes in how she positions herself. I think her statement on her blog recently was that she didn’t realize how people would react to her and she is adapting as a result.
Myself - I’m not a big name trainer or generic mlm trainer and don’t try to position myself as such. I’m just a distributor who happens to be good at internet marketing and I offer some training on that topic.
John I appreciate your sharing your thoughts and opinions, just as I appreciate Kim’s opinions.
Thanks John,
Ben Fitts
Thanks for the thanks Ben… and while you’re making corrections, I flubbed my first url. Should be: http://JohnMiltonFogg.com and my last line says “ne” instead of “be”. I type with two fingers and one needs spell check
This is interesting. I did know John Fogg was back in network marketing and I knew it was not with Vitamark. I learned about John because of Kim Klaver’s blog. If you don’t follow her blog you wouldn’t know how often she promotes others and their company. John Fogg was the topic of posts several times. I’ve been promoted on her blog many times. Why can’t she do the same for her new company that she has done for countless others over the years. I think the people who feel Kim was wrong to be honest about her start up and ask for Dissatisfied networkers to take a look should just stop visiting her blog. What is to be gained by bashing Kim Klaver? Are you worried she will take something away from you? I don’t get it. What is the worst that could happen by Kim finding a handfull of people for her company? She isn’t looking for everyone, won’t take everyone or even talk to most people. I’m a lucky one, she did let someone on her team talk with me. After several weeks, maybe months I decided her little start up was a fit for me. I still actively market for my other business, this was an add on. By the way I still haven’t actually spoken with Kim because she doesn’t want to let her name be a deciding factor for anyone.
If you decide this is worthy to publish I thank you for letting part of the Other Side of the story be told. If you don’t publish it at least you read it and will know not everyone feels the same way but do people ever feel the same about things?
Lastly, please look at the dates of the Posts about the other companies and then try to make some connection.
Robin
I have never perceived any of Kim’s remarks about ‘other’ NWM companies as negative or self serving. Anyone who has followed her email/blog postings must know that her total focus has been on improving the negative perceptions that our industry has earned over the years. A literal reading of her posts show that she pointed out the negative news of those companies and then discussed ‘why’ the practices of those companies led to the regulators taking the actions they did. She would also relate those problems to specific ways/words that would prevent these types of problems from occuring in my business. I always learned from these posts and never felt deceived. I knew she got ‘back in the saddle again’, but that meant nothing to me. I listen to her because she provides value to me; I learn from her. God Bless you, Kim. Keep up the good work.
If you were a prominent Network Marketing Trainer/Mentor, who had previously had great success in the field; that fact would be largely responsible for your following. Or at least it should be, don’t you think? Contrast this to the many “experts” who have never really done a genuine, live, three-way call, but can tell you all the do’s and dont’s. Which would you respect and trust more? Oh, I forgot to mention that you were convinced the “expert” was authentic because of his self-edification on line and off.
Our country is plagued with Affluenza and disingenuitis. I tapped into Kim’s stuff back in the day of aka, Ms. Stud. Back then and now, I knew of no NWM coach that was more upfront than Kim. It was refreshing to me to hear someone finally speak the truth about the industry.
OK. I am going to pretend I am K2 (A Foggism). Intelligent enough to know integrity is a cornerstone of my success; what should I do about my start up company? Publish it or hide it under a basket? I would do as she has done partly because it is her upfront style and partly to flame proof my butt. Why? If Kim is catching all this heat for being honest, what do you think it would look like if the news leaked out slowly and unofficially through the ‘blogsphere’ ?
Enough for now,
Tom Doiron
Atlanta
Kim has been “attacking”, or put into the right context, “commenting” on many companies throughout the past 15 years in order to help all of us to know by example how to do our own businesses more successfuly. I, for one, am glad to know what company Kim is with. I am happy with where I am already, and I will continue to refer her to others. Knowing what she is currently doing and where she has been gives me an edge. By her disclosures, now we can truly watch her rise in this new adventure of hers using the concepts that she teaches! What a great way to teach, by doing! and talking about it!!!
I, personally, am tired of the Kim bashing! (Yes, I’m screaming). Kim Klaver, in the year I have followed her teachings, has given examples of “good” and “bad” ways to do this business. She’s used the names of specific companies, and most of the time those companies were “in the news.” Since I have followed her, she has ever said “go” with this company or “don’t” go with that company. She has pointed out what to look for and what to stay away from. In all fairness, just like the industry in general gets a bad name from some heavy hitters, some companies get a bad name from the way the ‘big bananas’ promote the business. This is what Kim is pointing out to her followers, and to my knowledge, we’ve all benefited from her teachings.
Her own company ??? It’s an industry she ‘loves madly’ … why not? WHAT is everybody’s problem? She still continues to train with her New School Methods and keeps the two tastefully separate. So she promotes her company on her blog … she promotes a lot of other companies as well. So far I haven’t heard of any profiles that have been cancelled because they didn’t join her team.