Hi Bob,

I’m sure you’re upset with me. You’re a local ad link sales rep and you don’t want me to say bad things about it.

You said in your comment that your client was happy because he got first page results on Google.

Guess what? Your client is wrong. Your client should be taught that simply “appearing” on Google is only part of the battle. Getting a first page result means NOTHING unless that translates into sales. Simply getting on page 1 in google doesn’t mean you are going to get sales. The people have to click on the ad, go to local ad link site, then act on that information.

The real problem with local ad link is that they are helping people advertise but aren’t helping them develop an affective landing page that can convert people from clicking a link into a sale.

As far as whether or not Local Ad Link will be successful, come back to me in 12 months and let me know how many of your advertisers renew month after month 6 months or even 3 months in a row.

In my subject I say it’s wrong for MOST people. If I was a local pizza shop with no internet expertise then buying the word “pizza” on google for my zip code might be helpful but for most people they are buying advertising that won’t really help them.

- Ben Fitts

I’m with you, Ben. The friends I know involved in this can’t even explain how it works. “Oh, you’ll have millions of people seeing your ad!People will find your ad when they do a search on Golf.com!” (People don’t search on Golf.com and we aren’t advertising a golf product)

You won’t get many views, not for any reasonable price. One zip code? please! Even the local pizza place or dentist in the burbs covers at least 3. They’d do better to get a free listing on local.google.com for local targeting.

When someone can’t explain their product to me in an intelligent manner, and in fact I can tell they don’t know what they’re talking about, it’s a bad sign. Unfortunately, local biz owners know squat about online advertising and may buy it.

I’m in a tricky situation helping our little private school market their online program. We have prominent people at school involved with Local Ad Link and trying to get us to do it. I have to walk a thin line with not offending them, but I think it’s a totally BAD idea for this use. Our target is international, so why would we buy one local zip code?

Then the ads they put up show zero understanding of ad copy, persuasion, targeting benefits, etc.

Sorry, didn’t mean to get on such a soapbox, but the people I know who are involved have swallowed a lot of hype, rather than common sense.

Becki

Hey Ben,

hows it going ? i sold local ad link for a couple of months and end up quitting because i was having so many issues with the ad packages that i was selling werent doing what they claimed they would be doing. alot of my clients felt misled about what local ad link was promising. its not a scam but the product straight out sucks, and so does the customer service and tech dept. for local ad link, they dont help with anything. you do make make money by either recruiting more people or selling a product that doesnt do what they claim it to do.

This service is an unquestionable scam when you do the math. They pump garbage contextual traffic into advertiser’s tracking logs and call them “quality clicks”. I have yet to run into a single Credible person who has seen any results from this scam. Here is a thread that provides a lot more detail:

http://hubpages.com/tag/local+ad+link+scam/hot

Let’s get the word out on these guys so fewer people will fall victim to the Local Ad Link scam.

Hi Ben

Thanks for your bold approach! some friends and l where look at this for when it opens in Australia, our thoughts are changed now, we thought it may rally help local Australian business, but don’t seem the case now.

thanks Ben for the Perry Marshall link, this may be somthing we can use to help small local Australian business with, l will have to brainstorm with it see how Perry`s system could be duplicated with small non tech business owners.

Brian

Two kids running a coffee shop should NOT be spending money on getting to the top of Google. What a freaking waste of money!

WHO THE HELL goes to the internet to find a freaking local mom and pop coffee shop?

NO ONE.

Again this is part of the issue. You guys are selling ice to eskimos. People that can barely benefit at all and certainly cannot benefit $49 or $200 a month worth of business from their ad!

Hello, Ben.

I sold LocalAdLink (LAL) for a little bit and stopped. I felt I was cheating my customers (after learning more about LAL on my own) because of the reasons you stated above plus even with the targeted search terms my clients were not seeing themselves on the search engines often and just simply not get any clicks to their site, and my best guess, no sales.

I think that LAL IS A SCAM!

I say this because if the customer tries to change their ad- it is taken off the search engines for a month! Its in the fine print and FAQ of their site. Also the LAL link brings you to THEIR cheap looking website and not your site which doesn’t do anyone’s company any justice.

You and I both know that we will click on a site and hit the back button in 1.5 seconds if we don’t like what we see. Who likes the way LAL looks?

Sure- this might be good for people that KNOW NOTHING about the internet, but if you have a website, then you must know how to either make a site or know how to contract people for effective results. This program really takes advantage of people who are clueless and easily sold by sales reps promising the world.

To further increase my claim of scam, I NEVER GOT PAID BY THE COMPANY FOR MY SALES. I keep getting the same email- your check will be sent out in 7-10 days. I have received this same email for the past few months now. I did all this work, and mislead by the company, and then they don’t pay.

They don’t even have a live person to answer the phone! They dont respond to emails except the same copy and paste email (2 weeks later), they don’t pay but they brag about how much profit they make (via 3 emails per day!) and how good they are. Sure- my company would be profitable if I didnt post ads like I should and didn’t pay my reps!

I hope that your readers do not advertise through LAL, nor do they decide to sell LAL. I could go on through several layers of issues from the sales side company side, or as a rep but I have skimmed on the key points to give you a idea of what lies under the waterline.

I have contacted the attorney general in regards to them and awaiting the process to move forward. That is how much I think they are a scam. Ugh.

Best of luck to you,
Matt

What is the best Company to use if Adlink is not?

Well, just listening to all of the opinions as a Web site owner for sometime now let me make a few things clear:

1. Being no#1 on Google/Yahoo or at least on the first page is a good thing…but I agree it not THE ONLY THING!…Been their done that..and I did it 100% Organically…no PPC..which is a losers game if you really think about it.

2.If your new to the web and don’t want to spend much time figuring it out then LocalADLINK seems to be a good thing, even if you like to tinker around abit. I may buy a package for us just for the more High end zips…our business steers toward well-heeled…

3. Of course if your a GURU then you can do all this yourself, most people are not. So I am steering away from the HATE/SCAM comments even if they actually had an issue and I have no way of knowing…lets take them at their word. Like all things you have to work at it, being No 1. is only temporary if u sit back like I have as of late, now on page 2 of GOOGLE. So if you like it move on..GOOD LUCK TO ALL

Patti, etc. – stop the BS….you cannot claim 14 million customers and then at the same time, claim that you really did not launch yet. Plus, the company just released a financial report that they basically do not have any money, which is why they are now bouncing checks…But, good luck

All of our LAL checks have bounced. The backoffice is FUBAR and support is nowhere to be found. Ad placed are not showing up anywhere. Crime doesnt pay……………..

ALL i HAVE TO SAY IS
1.”Thank you for your submission to the FBI Internet Tip Line.”

2.Thank you for contacting the FTC. Your complaint has been entered into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database available to thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies worldwide. Your reference number is:22282814″

3. “Thank you for filing a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3).Complaint Id: I0904062009363161″

4. “SUBMISSION CONFIRMATION
This message confirms that we have received your submission. Thank you for your interest in ABCNews.com.

5. BBB Complaint ID: 98397176
We are currently waiting for the company to respond to your complaint.

I emailed the board of directors for Beyond Commerce, Bob McNulty, Ben Clark, SVP and COO, LocalAdLink, Roy Smith Support lead, and Support letting them know exactly what I have done. I missed their calls on my cel today and the lady calling said that they do not have direct lines she called from 702-685-4316. I called the number back just now and it doesnt give a name of where I am calling. I had to go through the directory to find out that it is one of the lines at Beyond Commerce. I hope somebody from Beyond commerce or Localadlink is monitoring this site. They need to get there act together. It’s about time to admit failure and say sorry. Thats all I ask, admit you scammed over 30,000 U.S. citizens and face the music.

Like Google Adwords and Double Click, LocalAdLink is also a full ad network designed to spread local businesses across the internet by allowing small to large businesses to display their listing across a network of partnered websites. What this means to businesses, is that we not only allow users to search for what they are looking for, but we also go out on the internet to show people what they are looking for based on where they live. We are able to do this by geo-targeting our advertising to a person’s location by detecting where they come from. This means that a person from New York City reading an article about gardening, may get an ad or coupon from their local gardener, local nursery, or maybe from their local florist. With this superior targeting ability, LocalAdLink is capable of adverting to hundreds of millions of people a day, on millions of different pages across the web, sift through all of it to find people more likely to visit and shop with businesses near them.

Maybe because you fail and get checks for only $50? What did you do, sell 2 packages for $50.00 monthly for two weeks? Like I said before failures like you don’t deserve to get paid. I sell at minimum the standard package at 100.00 a month. I sell at minimum 6 month package. Meaning at minimum I make $300/sale. Prospects that give me too much resistance and objections at anything less I hang up on them and make more calls. It’s a numbers game. I literally make about 150-200 calls a day and by the end of the week I have between 15-20 sales under the terms mentioned above. Checks are paid every two weeks. My last check was for a total of 39 sales for 2 weeks. 33 were sold under the standard package for a 6 month term. 6 were sold as premium under a 1 year term. My check was for a little over 14K for 2 weeks of cold calling and closing sales. As long as I keep making sales and checks don’t bounce I am going to continue what I am doing. Maybe because you fail life and can only cop up $50.00 in commissions in two weeks is why your check bounced. Or maybe it’s because you fail at life and tell lies. Scam or no scam, I could care less, I am making a ton of money. My checks are not bouncing. If this is a scam I won’t be held accountable because I am selling internet marketing and advertising (to my knowledge and understanding under penalties of the law I can’t be held accountable). My bank is growing and my wallet is getting plump. That’s all I care about.
P.S.
ReUnpack is English your second language? Try using spell/grammar check next time

Hey Mr. Akins….you know so little of advertising on the net. The LAL product is absolute garbage….And on top of that, they have no money left, which they openly admit in a SEC financial report released this month!

http://biz.yahoo.com/e/090403/byoc.ob10-k.html

Best of Luck with your scam!!

Jon Akins,So you do or you don’thave search terms and city/state combos to show where your ads are working? LOL

I am going to make this clear. When I approach my prospects I tell them I can get them Ad placement on the LAL directory. I tell them that according to our logistics there is increasing traffic and there is no guarantee but there is a good chance their Ad can and will be seen. I make no promise of any search engine propagation or placement of Ads, nor do I even mention search engines. I sell Landing Pages on a local search directory period. I will not sell the bronze package which is $49.95/month which features 3 zip codes and 2 search terms. I do not give that as an option to my prospects period. I offer the silver or also known as standard package for $99.95/month for 10 zip codes. I also offer the gold or also known as premium package for $199.95/month for 50 zip codes and addition features. I explain the part of search terms 2 for silver or 3 for gold as an additional way LAL attempts to get links to the landing page placed on search engines. As far as the LAL directory the client gets unlimited key words to be used for placement with in LAL. The search terms also are used for a part of the criteria to propagate Ad links to LAL for specific ads due to content on BoomJ. I will only sell packages for 6 month or 1 year terms. Prospects who want month to month or want the $49.95 bronze or also know as basic package get told from me “have a nice day call me if you change your mind, you have my number”. Meaning I don’t deal with people who won’t take the more expensive packages or who won’t commit to at least six months. So to answer your question UnRepack “Jon Akins,So you do or you don’thave search terms and city/state combos to show where your ads are working? LOL” My client’s Ads are placed on http://www.localadlink.com and are showing up fine there. That’s what I sold them and that’s what they are getting. If they feel it’s too expensive or not worth it, then I guess they will not be signing up at the end of six months or one year. That’s fine if they don’t because I have already been paid my commission and for every one that won’t renew I can get five more new accounts under the same terms. Just another tidbit here I never leave my home to make a sale making face to face appointments is a waste of time. I do it all over the phone and I have a magic jack which I paid $39 for and works great and costs me $0 to make unlimited calls. I also record all client interactions I have and they are aware of this. So if LAL really does turn out to be a scam, which I really doubt it, I am covered under any penalty of law through my recorded customer interactions and my meticulous documentation of all activities of how I operate and present myself and LAL. Scam or no scam I am making money selling LAL and will continue to do so until otherwise. I also have other sources of income that most of you would consider a scam. I prey on people undergoing home foreclosures. I offer them $5000.00 to help them. I make deals with their current lender to buy out their defaulted mortgage at 60% of the amount owed. I pay cash between myself and a few other investors. Banks will usually take the deal because it frees up all the cash resources the bank has to put up seven times the amount of the loan. So if I can buy 265K home that had 200k owed for 130k or so then turn and sell the home within 90 days for 225-245k pay my investors back plus 10% of the amount they invested and pocket the rest….is that a scam? I hope you think it is but it’s perfectly legal for me to do so and I will continue to do lulz =)

The 10 or 50 zip codes are for placement within LAL. That’s what I tell them and that’s what they get and as far as they are concerned is what they are paying for. The client gets a landing page on LAL that covers 10 or 50 zip codes. Like I stated before if the price range of $540.00/6 months for 10 zip codes to $2040.00/12 months 50 zip codes for a landing page on LAL is too much then my clients will not renew will they? I am willing to bet some or many will and the fact it is so easy to sell that I literally spend about 12 hours a week if that I will have decent residual for next year. This could be a great way to have passive income. Worst case scenario, LAL is a scam and I walk away, losing absolutely no money as I paid nothing to join, and I will be pocketing the money I have already made and will still make until the whole debate of whether or not LAL is a scam or not. It’s all Win Win for me! As I stated two of my closest friends that I grew up with are Attorney’s and practice law in the state of Massachusetts and have helped tailor a marketing and sales strategy of this product without the threat of legal repercussions for me. That goes for both Criminal and Civil, meaning I won’t even get sued. Best case scenario LAL becomes a viable part of small business and local advertising for internet marketing and I end up with more renewals than expected and obtain more wealth than I already have thus increasing my passive income through the residual sales commission from renewals to supplement my real estate ventures. ~ciao~

haha either there is something wrong with this site or I am being blocked with out notification!

Well my check from LocalAdLink bounced like a pogo stick! I have posted it up on http://www.totaan.com. If you don’t believe they are writing bad checks go there and see foor yourself. That would be mail fraud, statute is Title 18, United States Code 1341 and carries a five year prison term for each count. So if anybody else out there wants to let me know about there checks bouncing please email me. I will be putting a big list together. It’s time to stand up for yourself. email me totaan@gmail.com

I have yet to see any headlines in major news broacasting networks. When is it going down? When is this scandalous entity refered to as LAL going to be brought to justice? When will I see a major news headline on CCN, Fox, or MSNBC “Beyond Commerce indicted for fraud” My guess is never you will never ever see any as the company is legit. Just goes to show how anyone can make thier own blogging website and and post what ever kind of garbage they want.

greetings from **]>

There will never be any raids, news reports, or shutdown of Beyond Commerce because they are obviously legit and well within the boundries of the law for selling and marketing this product. I also notice its stock value is continuously increasing. Granted the stock is OTC but Beyond Commerce plans on getting listed on NASDAQ, if this was a scam we will never see that happen. There have been some technology bugs for LAS

I appreciate all of your comments.

It’s apparent that some people are fans of Local Ad Link.

Many others are not.

I haven’t edited any of your comments. To the guy that said he thought his comments were being blocked it was probably due to something you said in your comment triggering the spam filter.

- Ben Fitts
Author of Home Business Blogs

I’m a brand builder since February 09′ and I’ve been praying that LAL is legit so I can sell it and clients can save money and be more effective with their advertising.
In order for me to sell it in good conscience, I would have to see the product in action so I could show it works and in theory, it should sell itself.
I used some of the $1000 ‘LAL dollars’ to purchase ad packages for 2 of my businesses and to date I have not seen ANY occurance of my businesses ANYWHERE except the totally useless LAL directory. What that means is I am out $399 with a product I can’t sell which can be sold for free. I am hating LAL right now. Their support is even more useless then their stupid directory.
Google Adword is legit. It’s the way to go because it works.

Jon,

You seem so trustworthy and I can’t imagine why anyone would not hire you. In fact, you don’t seem like the type that would have a felony history.

LAL is a homerun. You can tell by all the deep pockets buying up this penny stock. The negative EPS is big because it shows there is such a huge upside. Of course, with your MBA, you already know this.

Yes…with your people skills, high IQ and open honesty, you need to get your resume on Monster.com NOW!! You are 100% proof why employers should always ignore felony history.

I did not want to join LAL because of Robert McNulty’s (LAL CEO), history of violating SEC laws and stock manipulation, but after reading your posts, there does seem to be a bit of integrity going on with LAL. I need to give LAL a second look. Thanks for your posts! You and D of D are beacons of leadership and hope for LAL!!

HI Guys

I was about to become a sales rep. Then I found this place buy chance and I hear that there broke and checks are bouncing and
hire people without proper training and lying to get sales.

I have been sales my whole life and I don’t need to waste my time in a scam and company going broke and sec looking at them. Is that whats mostly on the internet anymore is scams and junk on anymore. Don’t get wrong there some good stuff on the internet but have very carefully to.

If you can prove me wrong ewmail me
Michael Ladd
Michael75065@Gmail.com

“Unlike LAL who I understand pushes business owners sites out to over 100 other search engines”

Considering that virtually all searches take place on like 3-4 engines (i.e. Google, Yahoo, Ask, and MSN), how is there any value in these other supposed search engines?

“You should be off blogging about the banks that were proven to have scammed us out of billions and will never be brought up on charges”

So true that the banks were a scam. But, here is the problem…this is not a blog about banks. And, do two wrongs make a right? I love these MLM’ers who think that if they point to another scam or fraudelent concept, it somehows justifies their own behavior or fraudelent business. So, if banks scammed people, then somehow that magically makes LAL okay? Sounds like the reasoning of a 4-year old!

Bottom line, search Alexa.com and you will see that at present, LAL is ranked 20,000 on the net as a website. Wow, one can pay 200 dollars a month to be listed on an obscure directory that ranks 20,000!!! Wow, sign me up now…..nah, I change my mind, I will stick with the #1 and #2 sites on the net (i.e. Google and Yahoo) and will use their FREE listing!!

Remember….”BUYER BEWARE” “A FOOL AND HIS MONEY ARE SOON PARTED”

“When’s the last time you went to a fast food chain and got a wrong order?” Getting an order wrong happens – it is called human error…..you return it and in most instances, get an apology. Very different from a SYSTEMATIC, organized scam.

Mr. Smart Patrol,

So is McDonald’s a scam? You pay what a half million dollars for a McDonald’s franchise. Is that a scam?

Local Ad Link might be a bad business but it’s a bad business for other reasons, not because they charge to be a sales rep.

- Ben Fitts

If you don’t like MLM run away from this blog.

I love MLM.

The “pathetic” example I used of McDonald’s IS more realistic than your example of someone who has a JOB.

You see with Local Ad Link (LAL) anyone can sign up to become an independent sales rep. Why? Because they are starting their own business as an INDEPENDENT sales rep for the company.

If it was a JOB then you would go through an interview process and many people currently selling LAL wouldn’t be allowed to work for the company. However since it is an independent business opportunity anyone can do it.

There are both good and bad sides to that.

Remember I hate LAL. I’m just defending the business model.

My MLM company for example I have over 100 personal customers. I have sponsored around 40 distributors. So I personally have sponsored about 2.5 customers for every 1 independent distributor I sponsor. According the the FTC this is a criteria they look at. They want to see 2/3rds customers who don’t get compensated for selling the product.

- Ben Fitts

Jon – you made 50k…..right? If I send a fax number would you fax me the copies of the checks to prove it….???

Joe,

Are you daft?

Look at the title bar of your web browser and tell me what you see.
In the title you’ll notice Network Marketing & MLM training. That is the purpose of this web site yet you want to bash MLM.

You need to find a new web site to go bash MLM on.

Look, I don’t like YTB either. I don’t like the vitamin companies either because it’s too hard to separate the good ones from the bad ones and ANYONE with $50-$100k can setup a vitamin based MLM.

I think we agree on a lot of points but please take your MLM bashing to another site, ok? I don’t want to start a fight here and if you bash MLM I will defend it.

- Ben Fitts
The official title of this web site BTW is:
Network Marketing & MLM training from Home Business Blogs

Joe, I think LAL is a train wreck waiting to happen. However, if you turn on the TV tonight 8EST and turn to the Orlando Magic/Boston Celtics game, you will see in huge letters on the basketball floor AMWAY ARENA. Amway’s DeVos family own the Orlando Magic and have be model citizens for the direct sales industry…with some exceptions (like all companies) regarding rouge reps that abused the system over the years. They are a 6 billion dollar company and their products are incredible. In addition, you have Mary Kay Cosmetics, Herbal Life (see L.A. Galaxy soccer Jerseys)…Xango (see Real Salt Lake Soccer Jerseys)…these companies own these teams and their companies are legit. And, there are many more.

Check out the DSA Direct Sales Association board of directors. http://www.dsa.org/forms/committee/CommitteeFormPublic/view?id=7F3000604E6

Obviously, a small percentage of reps reach 6 figure incomes in MLM’s, however, the percentage is even smaller for employees who have 4 year degrees and work in the corporate world. But, MLM’s have few barriers to entry (ie. education, large cash outlay, niche technical knowledge etc) and it is a way for someone who is willing to work his azz off to make a significant amount of money if he/she treats it like a business and not a hobby. Most treat it like a hobby or are not willing to work through adversity.

If you have poor work/business/time management habits and you don’t change these habits, you won’t make it in the MLM industry either. It’s not a free lunch. MLM’s are 3 times harder than people think they are to build, but they pay 10 times your expectations if you pay the price and the company is legitimate. There are MLM scams and companies that build on hype without integrity in the leadership position…and some are illegal…like traditional companies.

But, if you build an MLM and you are a good steward of you money, you can make a nice living. If you are not, you will be another paycheck to paycheck 6 figure earner…just broke at a higher level. And, not all companies last forever…like traditional businesses, many MLM only last a few years.

But seriously, it is easy to hammer MLM because people drop out like they drop out of health clubs. But, lets take a look at traditional jobs. Give me an example of a company that is not set up as a pyramid? When you become an officer and above for most companies, you get paid bonuses that your subordinates don’t know about and these bonuses drive the way you hire and fire people. Outside of sales, you never make more than your direct report. And, this economy has proven there is no security in have a regular job…ie the auto industry, banking, real estate, mortgages blah blah.

MLM’s are not for everyone and many people exaggerate their income. However, if I look at any business and I hear large numbers, I will meet privately with the owner/marketer and ask for proof because I don’t want to be in business with a person that lacks integrity. They don’t have to show me, but I ask anyway. There are some big checks out there. And, I don’t want to see just a couple checks; I want to see audited financial statements. And, there are out there!

And, there are some people making large checks in LAL (I have not asked to see them) but I know for sure they are out there. But, in my opinion, this company will come crashing down unless they find a real working business model..and it won’t be with their newly touted ISupply…that is smoke and mirrors.

MLM is a brainwahsing industry. I hear the same rationlizations time and time again…..”Corporate Americal is set up like a pyramid”, “if you don’t work hard, you won’t make money”, blah, blah…..The difference is that in corporate America, you work and get paid an agreed upon salary..thats it….sure people “above you” will make more money….no big deal. In corporate America, you basically know everything up front and sure people get laid off, fired, etc. I also hear people say look at the banking scandal, Madoff, etc. So, to justify the MLM scam, MLM’ers point to another scam?? Talk about primitive thinking…..Two wrongs do not make a right.

In any event, in MLM most are mathematically unsustainable, most people do not make money, etc. The PREMISE of MLM is flawed….not an opinion, a fact.

Amway and Herbalife are still around? Proves nothing….selling cocaine is illegal, but that has gone on for years – it is still around – does that make it legitmate. In fact, in a report about Amway, it was found that:

“A statistical sample of distributors revealed that 99.4% of the IBOs [independent business owners] earned on average just $13.41 per week—before product purchases, all business expenses, and taxes. This average income is far less than the costs of the business, resulting in 99% of victims of Quixtar making no net profit.”

“The massive loss rates among Quixtar victims that are revealed in Quixtar’s own data are the inevitable mathematical result of the endless chain business model.”

I know, these are facts, and people in MLM are never interested in facts…..MLM’ers always have to create “excitement” for the “sizzle” calls to get more victims in their “downline.” Personally, I would never get involved in an MLM scam….remember, “Buyer Beware!!”

Later!

“Joe, what is not brainwashing?”

So, you agree that MLM is brainwashing? There you go again with that simplistic thinking. You point out other brainwashing to justify MLM brainwahsing…I have heard all of these rationalizations before from other brainwashed MLM’ers (i.e. social security is a ponzi scheme, coroporate America is a pyramid, if you don’t work hard at it, you won’t make money, look at the banking scam, etc.). Imagine a child molester said at his trial, “Well, I may rape little children, but this guy I knew killed little children.” You would say to yourself, “Boy, what a way to rationalize his behavior.” But, that is exactly what you do (i.e. you say look at the banking scandal). FRANk, TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT.

“Amway did 8.2 BILLION DOLLARS last year”

Hey, what does that mean? YTB did hundreds of millions of dollars in sales too…..but, that money was generated from the very people who were looking to make extra money via part-time work with YTB….IT WAS NOT FROM TRAVEL SALES TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC…….the gross revenues came from the Travel ‘Agents” paying 500 dollars to “sign up” and then them having to pay 50 bucks per month to “maintain” their status….it also came from those “agents” buying marketing materials, etc. The point is, gross revenues means nothing. That is how virtually all MLM scams work…the very people looking to make extra money end up supplying all of the gross revenues for those at the top of the MLM, and once those at the top make enough money in the scam, they close down (or they are sued – see YTB). Most MLM’s do not fulfill the FTC 50% rule, which means that 50% of goods or services must be sold to the GENERAL PUBLIC. Thus, by definition, most MLM’s are illegal….

You throw out 8 billion dollars as a “fact.” Did you not read the report of AMWAY that I provided? Virtually none of the distributors at Amway makes money….hey if it is such a great company and you can make so much money, then why are you not selling amway products???

Frank, you cannot justify MLM by pointing to other scams…it is just plain stupid thinking and easy to see through. Obviosuly, the banking scandal, the scandal with Madoff, etc. are terrible things and were wrong, but that does not justify scamming people in MLM….MLM is a flavor of the month business…….once LAL fails, which it inevitably will (as most MLM’s do), there will be the new flavor of the month. You are just pissed because I am EXPOSING THE TRUE MOTIVE OF MLM…..get MORE DISTRIBUTORS…get more people in your downline, etc….the product or service is ALWAYS INCIDENTAL, ALWAYS!

“Do you have any idea how many businesses fail in the first 5 years? Approximately 80%. Every year about 100,000 businesses in the United States fail”

Tons of them fail, BUT FOR VERY DIFFERENT REASONS compared to why MLM’s fail…..the latter fail because endless chain ponzi schemes, like most MLM’s are UNSUSTAINABLE and in the end screws the common man…..I agree that people have to work hard and people should not blame others for their failings…there we agree…finally!….but, it is the PREMISE that is flawed (i.e. MLM schemes), and there needs to be a stop to these…..why do you think at the FTC website, there is WHOLE section WARNING people about MLM’s – from the FTC website VERBATIM:

“If a plan offers to pay commissions for recruiting new distributors, watch out! Most states outlaw this practice, which is known as “pyramiding.” State laws against pyramiding say that a multilevel marketing plan should only pay commissions for retail sales of goods or services, not for recruiting new distributors.”

AND STILL MORE:

“Why is pyramiding prohibited? Because plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors inevitably collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. And when a plan collapses, most people — except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid — lose their money. ”

See, Frank, it is plain and simple…..written right there in plain English….I would not be surprised if my posts are not removed….would not want to have INFORMEED consumers….that would put a damper on most of these MLM schemes…..most MLM’s could give a crap about selling a product — it is about getting people in your “downline”….as it is noted by me and at the FTC website, the MLM plans eventually collapse, most people do not make money (except those at the very top), and regular, everday people get burnt (ie. see YTB lawsuit)….

I will leave you with an excerpt from the 10 BIG LIES OF MLM by Robert Fitzpatrick (he is an expert in MLM scams and has testified in court):

“MLM’s economic scorecard is characterized by massive failure rates and financial losses for millions of people. Its structure in which positions on an endless sales chain are purchased by selling or buying goods is mathematically unsustainable, and its system of allowing unlimited numbers of distributors in any market area is inherently unstable. MLM’s espoused core business — personal retailing — is contrary to trends in communication technology, cost-effective distribution, and consumer buying preferences. The retailing activity is, in reality, only a pretext for the actual core business, which is enrolling investors in pyramid organizations that promise exponential income growth.”

I agree people should look in the mirror, so start with yourself

One last point….I agree with the economy so bad, there will definitely be more people joining MLM and this is a “great opportunity” for MLM’ers to pounce on more victims….much agreed.

“ACN”

“Prey on the weak and depserate!!”

“Recruit, recruit, recruit”

The site will not let me post the link for whatever reason, but just search Google with: “ACN Investigation MLM”

it is the third link down……..

Later!

PS – Robert Fitzpatrick is featured in this video and even the attorney from ACN says the “MAJORITY” do not make money with ACN….hmm, why do they not say that at the meetings? Would not go over too well……dipsh&*^%

Joey, do you smoke fatties before you post?? Let see…should people listen to Joey Rose who lives in his parent’s basement and quotes recluse band drummers, or Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki? And, of course the Orlando Magic beat the Boston Celtics last night and will be playing in the East finals and at least 2 of the games will be played in Amway Arena on national TV. But, guess what? None of the Orlando Magic players get paid. Why, because Amway does not work and the DeVos family is broke. Joey Rose said so.

Dang Joey, you must be the ‘real deal”. Anyone who spends his day holed up in his parents basement trying to tell a few strangers on an internet board that the world is flat and Avon, Amway, May Kay, Herbal Life, Shaklee, Xango, Mona Vie, and hundreds of others don’t work, must be the ‘real deal”.

http://www.orlandovenues.net/other_info_files/amway_arena.php This is where game 3 and game 4 will be played this coming weekend. Funny, I just Googled Joey Rose Arena and I could not find it. Maybe you should put Rose Arena on a LAL directory??

Oh, and here is Xango Real Salt Lake pro soccer team http://www.xangosoccer.com/rsl/rsl.html I could not find Rose’s soccer team??

Oh, and here is David Beckham with his Herbalife Jersey on the cover of Sports Illustrated. http://seekingalpha.com/article/41291-herbalife-to-get-a-boost-from-david-beckham David Beckham, one of the top 5 most popular athletes in the World. But, wait, I could not find Joey Rose jerseys anywhere…no Joey Rose’s out there sponsoring a professional teams or athletes. Man, there are many professional sports teams owned by money coming from the owners illegal businesses….

“MLM don’t work and they are all illegal…and the world is flat.” – Joey Rose

Amway has been around for 50 years (30 years before Joey was born) and Nutrilite (MLM and subsidiary of Amway) has been around for about 70 years But, Joey says MLM’s all go out of business and they don’t work. Maybe the Magic did not beat the Celtics last night, .it was just my imagination. Ain’t that right, Joey? “But…but…but….but YTB failed…look at YTB….no fair..look at YT B…the Magic could not have beat the Celtics and play in Amway arena…look at YTB….says the mind of a child. How could Amway be so successful if YTB failed…YTB is my beacon of hope and proof that MLMs do not work…this is not fair…mommy!!!!”

“The most endangered species, the honest man” – Neil Peart

“Anyone who quotes recluse drummers and cannabis abusers heretofore is suspect in nature” – Dally Lama

Pinocchio, you need to live by this, my boy. Peart is not even in the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame. I despise BS artist like you! If you are going to quote a musical artist at least quote a sober one. There is more BS coming off your keyboard than comes out of Nancy Pelosi’s mouth.

Joey says, “You point out other brainwashing to justify MLM brainwashing…I have heard all of these rationalizations before from other brainwashed MLM’ers (translate: I didn’t have an answer for them nor do I have an answer for you so I’ll use a child molestation analogy) Joey states, “ Imagine a child molester said at his trial, “Well, I may rape little children , but this guy I knew killed little children.” Joey, what do your therapist(s) say about your fixation with child molestation analogies?

I have to admit, that was a nice incoherent and juvenile rant and you chose such a relevant analogy. Can you just be honest for 5 seconds and tell us how old you are?? Seriously, how old are you?? I feel like I’m debating a child. I named a few entities that have cultures of influence and I indicated that whatever you were involved in has a culture of influence which can be construed as brainwashing and a pyramid. This country was built on pyramid structures and a high strung culture! USA! USA! USA! However, there are legal ones and illegal ones. Joey, I stand by my contention that you are the one that is brainwashed. I take it that you did not test into Mensa??

Joey said, “Amway did 8.2 BILLION DOLLARS last year” Hey, what does that mean? YTB did hundreds of millions of dollars” but, that money was generated from the very people who were looking to make extra money via part-time work with YTB.” Ok Joey, you say YTB, I say Enron. So, MLM’s and traditional businesses do not work because of Enron and YTB? Nice logic. Are you serious…or just stupid? Based on that logic, I conclude because Amway did 8.2 billion and has been in existence since 1959, then all MLM’s are successful. Joey reaches for his bottle of Jack and slams his mouse on the table and yells, “Mom…Dad…I’m staying up as late as I want to debate this guy on the Internet!!!”

Joey says, “ the point is, gross revenues means nothing” Earth to Joey? What companies state their yearly volume in net profits or adjusted gross income adding back in depreciation??? For example, you said, “like I’m self employed and I run a seven figure business” That is an impressive statement there Joey. However, since you brought it up, I do run a 7-figure gross yearly revenue businesses. I run a tradition business that does 7 figures per year off of 8 figures in volume. And you know what that means Joey?? Nothing. It’s only a piece of my financial puzzle. So we agree on that logic.

Joey adds, “That is how virtually all MLM scams work the very people looking to make extra money end up supplying all of the gross revenues for those at the top of the MLM.” Joey, this is 100% proof that you are not only ignorant about business but you are very desperate to make a point. And, of course Joey, in traditional businesses, the people at the bottom make all the money….doh!  Joey reaches for his energy drink and screams at his mom, “I’m not going to bed until I answer this stupid Frankie guy… Frankie is an azz-H Mommy!! “

Joey follows, “And once those at the top make enough money in the scam (like Joey Imaginary Inc.), they close down (like Amway that started in 1959 and did 8.2 in 2008). Joey, sounds like you were referring to traditional corporate America with the little guy “supplying all of the gross revenues for those at the Top”??

Joey states, “Most MLM’s do not fulfill the FTC 50% rule “ which means that 50% of goods or services must be sold to the GENERAL PUBLIC.” Jeepers, Joey, so do you think that a few thousand Amway distributors bought $5 BILLION out of the $8.2 BILLION DOLLARS of products for themselves last year?? Do you think they wash their cloths 24/7?? Joey, you must be the “real deal” because you have such a mature and logical mind.

Joey JD says, most MLM’s are illegal. Sure Joey JD, that is why all MLM’s get shut down…oh wait, many of them are still in business and sponsor professional sports teams and many have attorneys, physicians, professional athletes, politicians enrolled as reps. Why? Because they love to get involved in illegal activities and put their careers on the line. However, you are correct as some do get shut down just like some traditional businesses. Sorry Joey…nice try.

Joey says, “You throw out 8 billion dollars as a “fact.” Did you not read the report of AMWAY that I provided? Virtually none of the distributors at Amway makes money” Sure Joey…I state it as fact…oh wait…here is the release http://www.smartbrief.com/news/aaaa/industryPR-detail.jsp?id=5B8AC084-4FBE-47B8-8B2B-C5FBCA84EDFD Joey proves he knows nothing about business…he thinks all Amway reps work for free…they built Amway to 8.2 billion so the DeVos family could own the Orlando Magic. Joey, did you not read my post that indicates your thoughtless stats include all distributors, who do nothing and who are enrolled as distributors to buy at wholesale?

Best regards,

Frank

“Joey, we agree with this statement and any company that pays its reps for recruiting should be fined or put out of business! So, we agree on 2 things in a row!”

And that is virtually all MLM’s – they all emphasize recruiting more distributors….thus, virtually all are illegal pyramiding schemes….

“do billions per month in product volume”

Already addressed that….a huge % of the products are purchased by the distributors themselves…NOT the general public.

Stop quoting Amway stats…I have already proven to you that 99.0% of those in Amway (via the study done) do not make money….its a scam!

Lastly, who is Neal Pert?

IRONIC – YTB JUST SETTLED WITH AG IN CALIFORNIA – NICE ARTICLE TO READ – FINALLY, THEY SHUT DOWN THE YTB MLM SCAM:

May 15th 2009 – Los Angeles – Stopping an “elaborate pyramid scheme,” Attorney General Edmund G. Brown Jr. today completed an agreement forcing YTB International to stop the deceptive marketing of its largely unprofitable travel websites and prohibiting the company from charging consumers nearly $500 to recruit others into its endless chain scheme.

“YTB falsely promised they could get rich quick by selling travel online,” Brown said. “In reality, customers were reeled into an elaborate pyramid scheme and most never earned a dime. Today’s settlement ends YTB’s pyramid scheme by arming consumers with hard facts and eliminating the need to sign up for this largely unprofitable website.”

On August 7, 2008, AG Brown filed suit against YTB (also known as yourtravelbiz.com), its affiliates, & founders to end the pyramid scheme and stop YTB’s false and misleading marketing campaign. Today’s judgment, filed with the Los Angeles County Superior Court, accomplishes this by:

- Prohibiting false and deceptive marketing;

- Requiring that YTB provide information in a clear and conspicuous manner about how difficult it is to make money by selling travel through YTB;

- Prohibiting the company from charging almost $500 to recruit others into the scheme and requiring that new member recruitment be done with a free online demonstration;

- Limiting future income from “downstream sellers” (e.g., people who have been recruited and who have become recruiters themselves);

- Eliminating perks & incentives for joining; and

- Making it a lot easier to quit.

YTB pulled consumers into its travel business with phoney promises of wealth and deceptive marketing. YTB charged customers $449.95 for the purchase of a website, and $49.95 a month to operate it. In total, consumers who became sellers of travel paid YTB over $1,000 in the first year of operation.

Many Distributors signed up to sell travel or to obtain travel discounts, but they quickly found it virtually impossible to make money selling travel. A plane ticket from Los Angeles to New York, for instance, would only yield $3 in profit. An international ticket from San Francisco to London would net only $6 in profit.

In 2007, the investigation showed annual median income for those selling travel was $39.00, less than one month’s cost to operate the website. The majority of consumers who purchased YTB websites made no money through the sale of travel, and many lost money through continued website operations.

By contrast, recruiting others to purchase websites, and having those purchasers recruit others to purchase websites (and so on), was much more profitable. Members earned money in the pyramid scheme based on how many websites they sold, as well as how many websites those they recruited sold. These multi-level sales, combined with the required purchase of the $449.95 website, formed the foundation of YTB’s pyramid scheme.

The Court stipulated judgment ends this pyramid scheme by: Prohibiting false and misleading marketing and requiring that consumers be provided with information about how difficult it is to make money through YTB. Until now, YTB has made wildly misleading claims about how much people can earn from selling travel. This included videos of YTB agents driving luxury cars and holding up $10,000 checks, and making misleading statements about millions of dollars earned in commissions. The stipulated judgment requires YTB to provide consumers with information in a clear and conspicuous manner about typical income earned by website purchasers, typical cost of operations, the number of people who quit, and the number of people who have not earned commissions. This allows consumers to see that most YTB travel sellers make no money, and in fact rack up high costs.

Stopping YTB from charging consumers money in order to recruit others. Until now, the only way that consumers could demonstrate the website is if they had already purchased one for $449.95. The stipulated judgment requires YTB to establish a free demonstration website that must be used when recruiting others. This will reduce the incentives for people to purchase YTB websites, which are largely unprofitable when used to sell travel.

The stipulation significantly limiting how much people can make from individuals they have recruited and who have become recruiters themselves. Sixty percent of recruiters’ sales must come from persons who are not themselves recruiters; otherwise, their income will be reduced.

It also Prohibits YTB from:

Issuing travel credentials in California and advertising that travel discounts, perks and tax-write offs are available by purchasing a website.

Stating or implying that their travel rates are comparable with those of travel booking sites such as Expedia or Orbitz.

Providing any recruitment bonuses or compensation based on the recruiter’s purchase of a website.

The stipulation Requires YTB to open up its operations to scrutiny by the Attorney General’s Office. The Attorney General’s Office will have access to all YTB marketing materials, events, meetings, gatherings and presentations to ensure the company is complying with the agreement and California law. YTB will also register as a franchise with the California Department of Corporations as required by law.

The stipulation Requires YTB to make quitting easily available by fax, email, or telephone.

The stipulation Requires YTB to pay $1 million in penalties, costs, and restitution to California victims who filed complaints against YTB.

In filings with the SEC since Brown’s 2008 lawsuit, YTB stated that there is “substantial doubt about the Company’s ability to continue as a going concern.” Also, it revealed that in 2008 and the first quarter of 2009, YTB has lost $5.9 million from its operations. The number of internet websites sold decreased 75% in first quarter 2009 compared to first quarter 2008, and the total number of website owners decreased 53% in first quarter 2009 compared to first quarter 2008.

Today’s settlement builds on the Attorney General’s ongoing commitment to protect Californians from the get-rich-quick schemes that proliferate in a down economy.

BTW, since you will likely not even bothering reading the report -it looks at these 11 companies:

Arbonne, Cyberwize, Free Life, Herbalife, Melaleuca, Nikken, Nuskin, Reliv, Usana, Your Travel Business (YTB), and Amway.

“MLM companies seek to obscure their devastating failure rates by disclosing the number only of “active” participants and limiting the income figures to a one-year or even shorter time frames, thus concealing the factor of the ongoing and mounting losses of new participants. If all the participants over a five-year period are included in the calculations, the failure rate rises even further. Less than one in one-thousand will be shown to have gained any profit at all. The so-called successes in MLM are in the same small group positioned, year after year, at the top of the recruitment organization.”

BTW, Franky….you have me all wrong, since I have a 7 figure business, I am not living in a “basement”…

I am a succesful doctor in private practice and have 5 doctors that work for me…..yeah, I am really going to fax financial statements to a stranger. Lets agree to disagree. But, the bottom line, I stick with facts and numbers, you get all emotional.

1) In the “Myth of MLM Income Opportunity” by Robert Fitzpatrick he evaluates 11 of the largest MLM’s, including Herbalife, YTB, and Amway and demonstrates by analyzing the numbers provided to him that: “99% of all participants received less than $10 a week in commissions, before all expenses.”

2) YTB was shut down three days ago (for all intents and purposes – it is referred to as a “settlement”)…their scam was exposed. Hooray for justice…lets just hope some of the victims can get their money back or at least some of it.

3) ACN video on Fox….some lady claims she makes 35,000 dollars per week or month or some BS like that…then the attorney for ACN openly admits on TV that the “MAJORITY” of people make no money with ACN….finally, an honest man….BUT, such an open statement is in fact consistent with the report documented by Mr. Fitzpatrick (you know the expert on MLM scams) – see Point #1 Above.

4) The FTC government website has an explicit warning page about the MLM scam industry, in which they warn people about the common practice in MLM – referred to as pyramiding:

“Why is pyramiding prohibited? Because plans that pay commissions for recruiting new distributors inevitably collapse when no new distributors can be recruited. And when a plan collapses, most people — except perhaps those at the very top of the pyramid — lose their money.”

Ghee, I wonder why they have an explicit warning at their website? – could it be detective that such “Pyramiding” is so common that someone over at the FTC decided to warn people about it? Hmmmm (scratching head)…

5) MLM has become so synonomous with fraud and Pyramid schemes that many advertisements for new network marketing opportunities start with: “NOT MLM.” I wonder why that is? Even people in network marketing, do not want to associate with MLM….Hmmm…..

6) Not all MLM’s are scams, there are a few legit ones out there…but they are far and few between….most MLM’s just want Pyramiding – i.e., recruiting more distributors. But, if you want me to admit that some MLM’s are legit….I 100% agree, there are some out there…..one I know of personally that is a good company – at least I think it is: “The Pampered Chef.” One can sign up to become a distribtor of their products and then the distributor (typically a woman) sells cookware at someone’s homes (i.e. like a Tupperware Party)…..

7) Are there other scams out there not in MLM…obviously….Madoff, the banking industry, the entire gov’t, etc. I agree 100%, those are BS too….But, just because there are “other” scams, does not justify the MLM scamming industry….

I apologize if I am just a person that does not like to see innocent (naive) people get taken advantage of….call me crazy, but that just does not sit well with me.

Why? I thought it was obvious…..in the MLM scam, the product means nothing….the goal is to sell distributorships. That is EXACTLY how YTB made their money….they were not selling travel to the general public. These are no my opinions, these are FACTS. That is why they were sued and were forced to be honest.

In sharp contrast, the Pampered Chef sell real tangible products to the general public. That is the key….I know one guy who did Herbalife and was told to “get started” he had to stock up on Herbalife products (I think he ended up spending like 4k on products, sign up fees, marketing materials, etc.). In any event with the PC, you can sign up to become a distributor (I guess like Mary Kaye)…and you pay money to do so (it is a very nominal fee). My wife had one of those pampered chef parties here at our home (not in the basement where she invited like 12 women to come the home and the distributor from PC gave a presentation. They have good products and ALL of the prodcuts sold were to my wife and the others invited (i.e. the general public). In other words, the goal of the PC is to sell tangible products, not to SOLELY to recruit people into your “downline.” Look, obviously, there are some legit MLM companies, but like I said earlier there are so few good ones and so, so, so many bad ones that the FTC has to warn people and other network marketers have to say “NOT MLM.”

Joey said, “I am a successful doctor in private practice and have 5 doctors that work for me…..yeah, I am really going to fax financial statements to a stranger.

Jeepers Joey…more evidence on what a fraud and hypocrite you are. Do you prescribe medicine like this?? Check out your previous posts…short memory…too many fatties?

Joe Rose Says: April 6th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
BTW, Patti – I will give you my fax number, which goes right to my e-mail….fax over the big profit checks you are making….somehow I doubt they will ever show up.LOL,.LOL
Joe Rose Says: May 8th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Jon – you made 50k…..right? If I send a fax number would you fax me the copies of the checks to prove it….???
Joe Rose Says: May 16th, 2009 at 9:30 am
“You need structure”
“how about I provide you with a fax number and you fax me your checks from LAL…..And, you would need to show me 12 months of consecutive profit from LAL….if you can do that, I will sign up…oh, and BTW, bounced checks do not count

Wow Joey..3 times you were wanted people to fax you checks. Now, I’m calling you out…are you ready to fax me your checks?? Can I fax you some ECG’s for interpretation? I’ll even throw in a few APR’s to aid you with the ECG’s. Don’t get all emotional like you do…you know…posting 3 times before my next post…that means that you are consumed by me and this blog when you should be focused on your patients. LOL! Nice…cyber malpractice on the horizon?? You are so full of BS!!! You can’t keep your lies straight!! Come out of that basement!

Ok Joey, why do you call yourself a successful family physician? How do you define “successful”? And, what type of business structure to you have set up? Do you W-2 the 5 MD’s working for you? 1099? Is it a partnership? LLC? Where did you go to under grad and what med school did you attend? Where did you do your residency?? I’m sure we know some of the same people because I run in a circle of friends who practice and teach medicine and who are from all over the U.S. and some are involved in various network-marketing businesses. Please advise…this should be fun

Lets see…Donald Trump or the obscure Bobby Fitzpatrick
Joey the fake family MD or Dr. Tootla..the top colon cancer surgeon in the world. Amway Arena or JOEY ARENA??

Joey again, you have not provided one shred of evidence about anything. You have shown your jealousy. And, we know 50% of family physicals want out because there is no future and socialized medicine is coming on strong.

Joey concludes, “MOM..Dad…he does not believe that I’m a doctor..and even if I was he would not respect me…..why did you tell me to tell him I’m a doctor!!!! This is bad…real bad…as Joey tries to figure out his next move….

“I know, I’m going to cut and paste another YTB article…that will get him.” LMAO! YTB…the company that has nothing to do with anything. I think I’ll post about how many MD’s have been arrested for illegal activity and not paying taxes…or the MD who have been convicted for murder. Or how MD’s are whores to the Pharmas…It’s all relevant in Joey’s world.

Joey…this is fun stuff…you have to admit!!

Frank….I thik you are going off the deep end there…pulling out quotes from my old posts…calm down now. When I asked those people to send MLM checks, I did that because I know in MLM that is commonly done to “prove” someone is making money in the MLM(I know someone close to me that has done MLM for the past 20 years, so I am aware this is sometimes done)….I did not realistically expect anyone to ACTUALLY do it, it was more rhetorical in nature…nor would I fax anyone personal tax or financial statements. The botton line is your posts suggest you are “losing it” and they have no relevance to MLM, etc. They are personal attacks….Lastly, how do I define successful?…I assume you mean financially….I define success in a lot of ways…one of those in being able to spend quality time with my three kids and family…but, in terms of financially, I define it as I do not have to live on a “budget” and do not have to chase a new MLM scam every 3 months.

Dr. Joe,

Why don’t we call you Dr. Joe if you are a doctor?

I have a product/MLM I’d love for you to look at. It sounds like you’d give it your seal of approval since the product is something you could definitely use in your family practice. “Greeting Cards!”

Can I call you and show you the product sometime?

- Ben Fitts
877-BEN-FITTS
877-236-3488

Thanks Dr. Joey…err I mean John. I’ll call them today.

Jim, you posted on every LAL blog/forum on the planet yesterday. However, you need to inspired the other “several people” to post their issues as well. The more BB post real issues, the more people will avoid getting blindsided or force LAL to correct it.

There comes a point when complaints won’t be scoffed at as coming from “goofballs” as the CEO puts it. In fact, that comment tells you much about him and it is scary that he is the LAL CEO.

I’ve questioned the CEO’s serious flaws from the begining and now I’m questioning everything about the company. And I don’t get I-Supply at all. There are thousands of sites that sell thousands of name brand products including network marketing companies. Amway has been doing that for years and it is still a very small part of their volume.

BTW, shallow brooks are noisy…..

Hey Check this out:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Local-Ad-Link-Scam

WOW! I see a lot of bashing going on and I really do not see any reason for it. We all have different opinions and as adults should be willing to understand that. There are many good companies out there and many not so good. Personally I have been involved with both. The problem sometimes is people who run their business with no integrity and in turn give whatever company they are working with a really bad rap, when it wasn’t the company’s fault, but the individual themselves. Unfortunately the individual is ignorant of what they do and really doesn’t care even when confronted. They just don’t know! I happen to love people and appreciate our differences. I have been in sales since I was old enough to walk the street and sell greeting cards to earn a keyboard that I so desperately wanted.
Now I could have taken all their orders and went out and bought my keyboard, never ordering their items. They would have been out the money and I would have lost all my friends and neighbors’ respect, but I would have had my keyboard. That, unfortunately, is what some people do. I am asking you all to check the credibility of each individual person instead of instantly pointing to the business. I have always done my best to earn respect by respecting others. It works! If I do what I say, they know I can be trusted the next time. But if for some reason I cannot, and don’t let them know- it breeds distrust. Honesty is still the best policy- I believe!
I wish you all success in whatever you choose. Just keep in mind “we reap what we sow” is seriously true! I’ve certainly seen the fruits of my labors…both good and bad….

Ben, you seem to have strong feelings again LAL. They are not making all the claims that you are stating. How much does yellowpages.com switchboard.com, ReachLocal charge for a month of service. I think the reason you are bashing them, is that they are ALSO a MLM. Is that what bothers you. Granted they have had growing pains. So does any new company. Does Microsoft have a perfect operating system every time they come out with one. NO – They go through a beta testing stage, and learn from ALL (and there are numerous) kinks in the program. EVERY time they come out with one it happens. You would think after all the years they have been doing it, they would have it perfected. NO they don’t. How do you expect a company that is 5 months old and of course was NOT prepared for such tremendous growth in such a short time to not have any technology problems. Nor were they prepared with the amount of qualified technical customer service reps. I am not making excuses, but the company and its products are NOT a scam. They have had set backs…… Check out Reach Local if you want to know how much they charge. Its a pay per click platform and you pay even when your own employees go on your website. Give it up Ben, I think there is a deep seated resentment on your part that you have such an intense hatred for LAL. If it wasn’t an MLM would you have the same feelings, or more understanding of a new company that was not prepared for such growth with setbacks. As for the people out there that have not gotten paid. There must be someone you can contact. A higher up or a phone number. I can’t imagine that everyone is not getting paid or the company would of closed already.

Hi Ben,
I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly…
You say you have set up a ppc for you father on google adwords and he only spends a total of $10/mo?

DEAR FRANK:

http://hubpages.com/hub/Local-Ad-Link-Scam

From Dr. Rose

Ben is obviously marketing his Dad’s granite countertop business (among 1000 such businesses in the state). Since the housing slump and their failed pay-per-click ad campaign failure, a free Blog might strum up some business.

If his Dad was a good businessman, his business would come mainly from General Contractors, Construction Cos, and Realtors. He would not have to advertise or pay per click.

Everyone reading this post should go to Google, search his dads company and click away!

This post is from an experienced BB who has been on board since early December. The concept was great in the beginning and results were not too bad.

I sold some ads recruited some other ad sales pros and then February hit…

Commissions failed to be paid and some are still owed to this day to my sales team
Ads for my clients would disappear for weeks at a time
Billing screw ups tended to be the norm and not the exception

Fewer and fewer ads are actually showing up on 3rd party networks.

I did a test for my own small business and compared it to my premium ad $200 monthly.

I reviewed my website logs to see how many visits I’ve had from the localadlink listing….11 to be exact…at a cost of $1000.

I generated the same number of visits from a google adwords campaign in 7 days for under $20…

At the rate of actual clicks I’d estimate the spend less than 5% of my investment on the actual ppc campaign..

Is it a SCAM..NO….is it bad business and one of the worst ways to advertise…YEP!

I have to prove ROI to my advertising clients and it simply cannot be done with their current model. The stats provided in the back office are a joke and more can be found from a free stat service.

LAUNCH UPDATE

Now all ad plans under $99 DO NOT INCLUDE any 3rd party submissions (google, etc)…they are strictly put on the localadlink.com directory.

Wow….from horrible ROI to a negative ROI….smooth move LocalAdLink.

I’ve been selling advertising to SMB’s for over 10 years…you can sell em once but they will not stay if they have no ROI. As a stockholder I asked for sales stats to be released. I wanted to know how much of the sales were to actual end users who were not Brand Builders…silence is golden.

Stay away….if you are in professional sales….do not stain your rep with this company….you will not regain the trust of your hard earned clients….

We stopped in February when the ads stop showing up….our whole team has stopped as we are in the business of selling ads and not MLM jockeys…

The LAL Haters seem to be a bunch of techno-weenies whose solution is to always just “buy a book and do it yourself!”

By that rationale any company that designs websites for businesses is a SCAM!!! Why? Because you can just “buy a book” and make your own website. Have you heard how much some of these scam websites cost?? I mean holy cow!! They some times charge hundreds of dollars for something you can do yourself from a book!

Or what about those slicksters that open up those so-called “oil change” places? Those guys are really out to get you. Talk about a scam! I mean, you dont even need to buy a book to know how to change your own oil. Just pick up a filter and a couple quarts of oil next time you’re in Wal-Mart and change your own oil! How dare they charge $40 for something you can do yourself for half the price! Man there are so many scams, right??

I bet you guys make your own hamburgers because McDonalds uses cheap beef and marks it up to make a profit. Or maybe you make your own donuts, because everyone knows you can buy a deep fryer yourself and for crying out loud the dough is just… well dough! This Krispy Kreme is such a freakin scam!! How can they charge 89 cents for one stinkin donut that has a total materials cost of about 4 cents???!!

(ARE YOU GETTING THE POINT?)

Local Ad Link is not a scam. I have personally spoken with business owners who are excited because they are generating business. One guy who runs a “tent business” that does private parties was very happy because his $99 ad landed him a $1500 job in his first month.

The point is this: business owners need a turnkey solution that is affordable and provides results. You techno-weenies don’t like it because it is dressed up in nice clothes so that business owners will gravitate toward it.

Fact is, if you pay-per-click experts had such hot programs already there would be NO ROOM for LAL to take root in the first place. This means that you haven’t done a good enough job.

On top of it all, you guys are hating on a brand new company and it will have start-up issues. Look at the well established companies. Head down to your local Home Depot tomorrow (a well-established company) and ask if they had any customer issues this week. ALL companies have issues. Even the ones YOU work for.

Guys, this is just a better mousetrap and it is getting better. Business owners like it. Sales people like it. The market likes it. It is affordable and right now there is a huge hole in the market that it will fill. If you haters have a better product, you have nothing to fear and nothing to be upset about. Business owners will switch to you over time if you have a truly better product right?

Or maybe they can just go buy the book…

BUT THEY WONT. The internet id 10-15 years old and over 40% of businesses still dont have a website. Are you going to be upset that people are actually charging business owners to build a website for them? What a scam right? When you can buy a book and do it your self?

Most people could change their own oil in their car…

BUT THEY WON’T. Do you? You can throw on some work clothes and buy a filter and some oil, jump under your car and change the oil.

The shills for Local Ad Link still linger… Amazing that more people are falling for this con job.

And who are these horribly misled investors dumping their money into the Beyond Commerce furnace? Does anyone do their homework on these scumbags?

Your tangential ranting is starting to make no sense….r u okay? JR or Joe Rose – was not trying to fool anyone…duh…..it is called shorthand. Never claimed that I could “compete” with Scamway (yes it is true I do not own an NBA arena – you got me there–I admit it).

Went to another blog because this one does not work most of the time when I try to post……Why is it hard to believe that I spend 150 bucks per month on Ad Words? Sure I can spend a lot more…but for the limited money I spend, I do get some hits from it, especially the Google affiliate sites – and like I said, the specialty is very narrow and there are few competitors, so I do not need to spend a lot of money. If you know anything about Ad Words, you do get “regions” of the country for ad placement. They do not target 10 or 50 zip codes….that’s a waste and a joke for most business owners. The fact is I do spend that on Ad Words….it is a very small fraction of how I get referrals… but, I do it so I have a web presence……that’s all. Count the zip codes in Nassau, Suffolk, Bronx, Queens, Manhattan, Brooklyn, etc. It adds up to at least 800+ zip codes – it is public information that is easily verifiable….. Why would I ever consider lying about information that is easily verified??… That’s how it works in an urbanized setting – this is not Nebraska. BTW, in case you did not read earlier, I am not a “family doctor” – never said that ever – you just made that up in your own mind – you have a propensity for that.

IMO, you are nothing but a jealous guy who can’t handle the fact that I am a highly successful professional without having to resort to the wasteful “chasing a new dream every two months MLM scam industry”….LOL, ha ha…..hey, you better run from reading this post to:

1) get to your “sizzle call”
2) gotta build that “downline”,
3) better “fake it til’ you make it”,
4) better quit your “J-O-B”
5) “Not MLM”,
6) better “work the program”,
7) “Hey look at me, I am a network marketer”,
This one creates “residual” income
9) This is an “easy system to duplicate”
10) “Just Find 3 Friends Who Tell 3 Friends, Wow, I’m Gonna Be Rich”
11) etc., etc., more BS, ha ha ha

Let’s go through the recent and not so recent scams and / or companies where there is really no business “opportunity” at all: Pre-paid legal, Excel, Burn lounge, A.C.N., YTB, LAL, Scamway, Herbalife, Melaeuca, etc. Should I go on? Hey, just ask the FTC – go to their “warning page” about the MLM scam industry…ha ha ha…LOL, LOL The fact is most MLM’s are endless chain recruitment schemes where most (i.e. 98% will not make any sustainable, legit income)…You can get angry with me for that, but hey I am just the messenger. Frank, I know, I know, you are now going to point out that there are other “mainstream” scams too – been there done that – childish logic! Two wrongs do not make a right! – learned that when I was four.

Scamway??, First, never ever claimed the PRODUCTS themselves were no good – never said that – try to stay focused now and stop putting words in my mouth…..I was talking about the so called business “opportunity” for the average Joe or should I say, the average Frank…..sure the COMPANY grossed all that money, but the distributors make jack sh&^%$….it is a known fact……see the factual report I posted above…plus, if it is such a great company with so much earning potential that YOU keep bragging about, why don’t you sign up and become a “distributor”???….you pathetic hypocrite!!…….LOL Anyone knows that there is no business “opportunity” with Scamway…sure maybe the products are good, but I am strictly talking about the business “opportunity” for the “average joe.” I know you hate facts, but for the person looking to make money in Scamway, here are some facts:

“According to Quixtar scam’s own disclosure document the average monthly gross income for an “active” IBO is $115 (or $1,380 annually).

In the Amway scam business, only 41% meet these criteria as being “active.” This also means that 59% of all distributors are NOT active.

Out of ALL distributors, only 0.82% qualifies as a Direct-level distributor. This means that 99.18% of all distributors do not qualify as a Direct-level distributor. A company where 99.18% are unsuccessful.

If you are earning 70$ per month you are in the top 11% of earners at Amway & Quixtar scam.”

Boy, now I see Frank why you do not want to join Scamway. In fact, Amway epitomizes everything wrong with MLM. As you pointed out, the COMPANY itself has lots of money (they can buy NBA teams and pretend to be good Christians too!!) and those at the very top make all the money despite the promises of riches to the average “Joe.” Remember, the average “Joe” makes $115.00 dollars per month! Whooa, Holy smokes sign me up today Frank!!! I will tell you what first you sign up and then I will go in your downline….I will be your first in your downline!!….we’ll be rich! Well, maybe not, but hey, we can say to our friends, we are “self-employed”!!…we don’t have J-O-B’s, we are not suckers!! I know, Frankie, these facts are so icky and scary!! Unfortunately, with a world population of 6 billion plus and a lot of naive people, Scamway is here to stay – Go Magic! Better luck next year! BTW, here is a great satire done on MLM (i.e. mostly about Amway) (watch the trailer – if you have a sense of humor – it is hilarious): http://www.believethemovie.com/.

Yeah, right, like I would ever meet you in Virginia – sorry do not travel to those backwards ass hick states…come meet me here in N.Y. any time Frank, any time…..what does Sinatra say in that song about NY? Meet me at the Empire State Bldg. I will give the door man my cell phone number and I will be waiting at the top for you..we can have a smoke and a drink…on me of course….LOL, LOL…

JR,

We moderate all posts with links in them. If you want your post to show up immediately stop putting links in it.

JR, you rated several of the best multi-billion dollar MLM’s as scams. You need to go back and do your homework.Prepaid Legal, Excel, ACN, Herbalife? Not scams. FTC likes them. Sure some distributors did dumb things and got in trouble in specific states but the FTC likes those companies. They like the taxes they pay as multi billion dollar businesses!

They aren’t even in the same league as crap like YTB. Those are just opportunities.

Excel, ACN, Prepaid Legal, Herbalife… they had real products and real customers. The FTC requirement is that 2/3rds of all people involved need to be customers who are not in any way associated with the business opportunity. They all clearly meet that requirement that’s why they’ve been around 20 years each. If they were all scams wouldn’t they be shut down by now?

- Ben Fitts

Of course there is a failure rate in MLM.

I agree people market it in a bad way. I don’t like people who say you only have to get 3, and teach them to get 3. I agree with you on that.

However it only costs on average $300 to $500 to join a MLM company.

McDonald’s franchises have to put up around $1.4-$1.6 million on average in total investment. AND the average McDonald’s has a profit of $338,000 not counting income taxes and fees.

So if the average person makes $80 from their investment in their MLM per month their making the same percentage of profit as some dork who invested $1.4 million in a McDonald’s franchise!

Yet I know a lot of MLM’ers that make hundreds or thousands of extra income a month all for their initial investment of $300-$500. And I’m not talking about the people who make the BIG money in MLM. Just the average joe distributor.

- Ben Fitts

Dr. Rosenscam/JR and your other monikers,

From you: Joe Rose: March 27th, 2009 at 16:39 #137 Reply Quote “I do Google Ad words and pay 150 per month for about 90-120 clicks per month in a much larger region than 50 zip codes – and it goes right to my webpage. Plus, I also have my business listed for free on Yahoo Local and Google Local for added exposure”.

Then Joe/JR adds on April 2nd, 2009 at 16:46 | #158

“No offense Rich…but your post is funny….110 websites? Ghee considering like 3-4 search engines comprise over 95% of all searches on the web, the 110 LAL sold you on is BS, hype, and exaggeration. When I pay the $150 (I could pay more or less obviously) I get hits on the largest search engine in the world in literally thousands of zip codes with as many or few key words as I want…plus when a potential customer clicks my sponsored link, it goes right to my webpage…anyone that knows anything about search…you have a few seconds to capture a potential customer…even “splash” pages at your own site is not recommended for this reason. “

“Ghee” Joe, what type of medicine do you practice…what is that specialty that you only have “a few seconds to capture potential customers” from your “thousands of zip codes”.

It’s interesting how you avoid what you specialize in. You’re not afraid that I might know something about medicine are you? You whine about MLM’s but you don’t have the courage to tell everyone what you specialize in. What are you afraid of??

Reflexology…chiropractor?

BTW, regarding your “professional” comment…I pay out more in RE taxes than you make in a year…in fact, I bet I pay out more on my 40% interest in 1 apt. complex than you make in a year. So, try again.

I did make a lot of money and earned many resort trips in an MLM in the 90’s…when I did not have a family and invested much time and effort into it. And, I believe that certain people can build them to successful levels just like any other entrepreneurial venture. They are not for everyone. I came across this blog as I was researching LAL. You and I both hammered LAL but I got tired of you BS lies about your MD gig and wanted to call you out for the fun of it…and it has been fun. I just can’t wait to see how long you stall before you make up a medical specialty.

Finally, how do you think my Celtics will do this year…with Sheed?? Do you think the Knicks will ever compete again???

Ghee” Joe, what type of medicine do you practice…what is that specialty that you only have “a few seconds to capture potential customers”

That is a generic concept for internet search in which it is established that if you do not have what someone is looking for, they will click out rather quickly – thus the idea that you have only a few seconds to “capture” that person. When I said thousands of zip codes, I was making a point, but yes it was exaggerated to an extent. In reality, the catchment area I am in is more like 750-1000 depending upon how far someone will travel. But, the real point I was making was to mock LAL having a package for 10 or 50 zip codes – that is preposterous on so many levels.

“I pay out more in RE taxes than you make in a year…in fact, I bet I pay out more on my 40% interest in 1 apt. complex than you make in a year. So, try again.”

One, how could you possibly know what I make a year? Two, if you have RE, then that is a great investment – certainly a good long term investment and that beats out MLM by a mile. I too have some income from real estate (not a lot, but some), although, having tenants has its down side too (i.e. things break, lack of payment, etc.).

I am not making up anything – I have no reason to on an anonymous blog. And, hey if you made a lot of money in MLM, then great. I just think when the odds of making money are better in Vegas, MLM cannot be too great for the majority of people (i.e. 98%). But, again if you made money in MLM, hey that’s great.

Yes, the knicks do suck and back in the Ewing days, I was a huge fan. Has not been much to cheer about these days. Supposedly, the Knicks are going to go after Lebron in 2011 – we’ll see.

Anwyay

Peace!

Joe,

Thanks for the response.

I am not a BB with them. I have run across them and am doing my due diligence before my official ‘yay’ or ‘nay’. I have found some good and some not so good. My main concern is if the ads and their ad model work. Their financials, customer support, bookkeeping, etc. can and will work out as long as their ad ‘model’ works.

I can understand they are a brand new company, and as such things are pretty chaotic at first. Customer support being non existent can be a foul-up. Bouncing checks is a whole different story. In the 10 years I owned a B&M independent bookstore, I never bounced a check and my employees got paid on time. If my bank account didn’t have the funds, I took it out of the till(recording the amounts of course). Bouncing checks is unsettling.

The ‘usual’ scams/schemes want money up front. LAL don’t want a dime up front. They have certainly found another law for Dr. Cialdini to write about.

Ok, I have sat here for the past hour reading post after post on how MLM and Local Ad Link etc. is a good thing and a bad thing. I have researched the subject across the internet and have come to a conclusion that I will hold off on the “Get Rich Fast” deal for now and go back to doing what I know best and just do it with a fresh outlook and just work harder at it to accomplish my personal desires.

One thing this blog and others have done for me personally is to enlighten my awareness on the MLM subject before I got involved.

Interesting discussion. I’m a Local Ad Link Brand builder. I’ve read most of the posts. My experience has been very positive. There have been ups and downs – with the server, with checks. I’ve never had a check bounce, but one of my checks was delayed by a week or two. That said, the company continues to address the issues – really trying to make things right by listening to associates, acknowledging problems and making changes. Checks are coming on time and the website is now quite stable with improvements all the time.

I, like an earlier post, too am puzzled by your analysis of the PPC and your dad spending $10 per month. For CT, I googled Granite Countertops, Kitchen Remodeling, Granite and other key words that I thought logical, but didn’t come up with your Dad’s site until I typed granite crete, ct or granicrete, ct that I even saw your dad site – organically on the left. Yes, the site was on top, but if I were looking for granite counter-tops I wouldn’t have thought to get so specific. I didn’t find the site at all when I did the same in Rhode Island. Granted, I didn’t go beyond the first page, but I don’t think most consumers would – especially when there were so many options on the 1st page. What should I search to find your Dad’s site easily?

Glad what you’re doing for your Dad’s site is working for you/him. Best to you.

Over the past few months,we have been seeing a lot of negative reviews about LocalAdLink. These reviews are true. I tested one of my clients with their services and nothing happen. I decide to take matter into my own hands. I create a company that will deliver what local companies are looking for. Let me ask you a question? Have you ever seen a Localadlink profile in Google Maps? I haven’t. We can get you there and on ppc. If you don’t believe me, visit my site http://www.localsearchranking.com/local_marketing.html

People think they know all about PPC when they do not and either way if you go organic your doing everyone a favorite. Remember a long run focus is NOT governed by short term thoughts.

Often we forget the little guy, the SMB, in our discussions of the comings and goings of the Internet marketing industry. Sure there are times like this when a report surfaces talking about their issues and concerns but, for the most part, we like to talk about big brands and how they do the Internet marketing thing well or not so well.
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How is Local Ad Link working under Zurvita?